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talk:decisions:katten_bill [2012/07/05 01:09] cabst |
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| --- //[[texas@elektromail.yu|Jyīoɯ̅ecκacs]] 2012/07/04 23:53// | --- //[[texas@elektromail.yu|Jyīoɯ̅ecκacs]] 2012/07/04 23:53// | ||
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| My argument is mostly based that the annexation of Tora ocurred mostly due to political intimidation rather than self determination like the Kattenites/Mongols claim. With a record of humiliating defeats against the Mongols and currently holding little to no population, the Torans had no choice but to accept obviously, because otherwise we could deduce what would have happened which is an agression war of incorporating the Toran territories. Tora already went to a Land Rule ruling because of its enourmous size and even if was cut (by me) I still held my stance that it was too big for them; but, I trusted they would expand, demographically speaking. | My argument is mostly based that the annexation of Tora ocurred mostly due to political intimidation rather than self determination like the Kattenites/Mongols claim. With a record of humiliating defeats against the Mongols and currently holding little to no population, the Torans had no choice but to accept obviously, because otherwise we could deduce what would have happened which is an agression war of incorporating the Toran territories. Tora already went to a Land Rule ruling because of its enourmous size and even if was cut (by me) I still held my stance that it was too big for them; but, I trusted they would expand, demographically speaking. | ||
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| And even if this poll or the other don't pass, and Tora officially becomes part of the Khanate, I have the biggest intention of submitting the Katten Khanate into a Land Run Court to reduce their current territories. This is completely legal, acceptable and it has been done several times. Shakomatic and the Breshikan Kingdom went throught it, MystiaLoreli and the Pan-Asian Meritocracy went through it, you and the Kurwan United Council went throught it, and the Torans recently went through it. | And even if this poll or the other don't pass, and Tora officially becomes part of the Khanate, I have the biggest intention of submitting the Katten Khanate into a Land Run Court to reduce their current territories. This is completely legal, acceptable and it has been done several times. Shakomatic and the Breshikan Kingdom went throught it, MystiaLoreli and the Pan-Asian Meritocracy went through it, you and the Kurwan United Council went throught it, and the Torans recently went through it. | ||
| - | In conclusion, my intention was not extending the powers of the administration but to make an assessment of the Katten Khanate, its status, and its actions. As a matter of fact, I have in mind a series of reforms that would empower the players through the nation; unfortunately, with the current amount of players and the anemic activities of the nations, there is not enough motivation to carry them out. I hope you understand. --- //[[caBst@irc.dev-urandom.eu|caBastard]] 2012/07/05 00:52// | + | In conclusion, my intention was not extending the powers of the administration but to make an assessment of the Katten Khanate, its status, and its actions. As a matter of fact, I have in mind a series of reforms that would empower the players through the nation; unfortunately, with the current amount of players and the anemic activities of the nations, there is not enough motivation to carry them out. I hope you understand. --- //[[caBst@irc.dev-urandom.eu|caBastard]] 2012/07/05 00:52//\\ |
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| + | I don't see the issue with political intimidation, you used it for weeks to try and force Coenstad to ceed San Felipe, and the United Council used it against Greenland for 2 months to try and force a reunification.\\ | ||
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| + | Regardless both cases it failed to yeld results due to the other party digging in their heels and refusing, but with that aside, the first time a Nation folds and is annexed, must we really intervene? they surely knew of the conquenences of their decision when it was made, and nobody raised a fuss when Coenstad annexed Deseret or when Kurwa annexed Glo, should we retroactively erase those two events from the pages of history to make the Khattenian action in Tora unprecedented?\\ | ||
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| + | It is not like this was the only option, they could have simply choose to pay 64 iron to prevent any invasion, or signed a treaty with another nation to provide defense of them, if they choose simply to submit to Mongol rule, what is the issue at hand other than another feel good cause like //Free Tibet//?\\ | ||
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| + | To add, may I ask what relavence is there to this matter what their level of interest was in annexing Tora was? It seems common sense an 'Empire' would wish to incorperate other territories and settlements into it as it expands.\\ | ||
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| + | As for the matter regarding the mongol wars, this issue is completely disconnected from the question of territory, that instead falls under the purview of the International Rules of Engagement, as such, you should be bringing war crimes charges against the responsible military commanders under it, and if that fails, bring a vote to suspend their nation status for failure to abide by the rules of engagement until they come into compliance with it.\\ | ||
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| + | You bring up another issue, I don't recall the GAM or the Kurwan United Council ever having to ceed any territory through this 'Land Run Court' you speak of, all of our territorial disputes were settled in bilateral talks without mod intervention except for Alpha clarifying the legal position of Greenland in relation to Kurwa and G.A.M. which resulted in no territoral changes; and nether did the Breshikian Kingdom lose any land through this supposed court, if I recall it lost its territory through war with Kurwa, which evenutally all but eradicated the nation of Lakota from existance through annexation.\\ | ||
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| + | --- //[[texas@elektromail.yu|Jyīoɯ̅ecκacs]] 2012/07/04 23:53// | ||
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| + | >nobody raised a fuss when Coenstad annexed Deseret or when Kurwa annexed Glo | ||
| + | >nobody raised a fuss | ||
| + | >when Kurwa annexed Glo | ||
| + | >nobody | ||
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| + | Stopped reading there. --- //[[caBst@irc.dev-urandom.eu|caBastard]] 2012/07/05 03:11// | ||
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| + | So basicly you are stating you have no arguement to justify this current vote in the face of history?\\ | ||
| + | --- //[[texas@elektromail.yu|Jyīoɯ̅ecκacs]] 2012/07/05 15:12// | ||
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| + | Didnt read any of this discussion but as long as theyre annexing territory legitimately then why interupt it. if someone wants to use their land and can show that khatten isnt using it then thats a different matter but if theyre legally annexing cities or empty space that no one was going to use anyway who cares -vlad | ||
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| + | As for the accusation of us jumping minoriko we simply told the Toran leader what was happening and our wish to annex the city, they said they'd rather join the Khanate before GAM or Badface as we were geographically closer. They are willing to forget our past troubles and so are we, they want to become a fully autonomous state within the KK. I don't see the problem, everything is happening peacefully and we are offering to add to the city. \\ | ||
| + | As for the land running claim I hardly see why you would even bring that up, we have 3 small desert biomes, and we chose them because they were small and close to other nations. While we lay claim to the entire server, in reality our actual area is quite small. We have around 25 members, some are banned and other inactive but that doesn't stop other nations from claiming huge areas, just look at GAM and Soviets, they claim entire continents then go out and claim a large jungle biome and they only have slightly more active members than us. \\ Just look at this: {{:talk:decisions:size_difference_in_nations.jpg?linkonly|}} \\ | ||
| + | --- //[[greenkitten@rocketmail.com|green kitten]] 2012/07/05 08:30// | ||
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| + | The ca who proposed this is truely a major faggot and all of you should stop taking minecraft that serious. --- g | ||
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| + | **<wrap em>SAGE</wrap>**\\ | ||
| + | No, Yugo. It just means I stopped reading your post after that part. You're a delusional piece of shit. --- //[[caBst@irc.dev-urandom.eu|caBastard]] 2012/07/05 17:12// | ||
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| + | So what of the fact there was no mod intervention when the United Council state annexed the Nothern territories and Glo, there was no intervention when Battkhortostan annexed the Sacred Grove, there was no mod intervention when I claimed the Antillies, there was no mod intervention when Coenstad annexed Deseret, there was no mod intervention when Kurwa annexed Lakota land?\\ | ||
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| + | The only time I recall there being intervention in relation to territoral claims was when K_Chris took over Evergreen, and when the United Council State declared their intent to annex Greenland; In both cases Alphabernd ruled to take no action as both were legitimate actions under the political system of this realm, which the mods had no business in meddling with.\\ | ||
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| + | So now after these history lesson; you put forth this vote for what reason? In the past this would have been left to the politicians to deal with, so why at this point in time must we intervene against the Khattanis when there was never Intervention against no other nation in the past for trying for territorial claims, especially when the adversely effected party consented?\\ | ||
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| + | And to add; This vote serves no purpose under the banner you fly of being against land-running, as the Khattani claims are modest since apart from Bannistan, their other two territories barely even emcompus a third of the biomes they are based in.\\ | ||
| + | \\ --- //[[texas@elektromail.yu|Jyīoɯ̅ecκacs]] 2012/07/05 17:41// | ||
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| + | They are evil Badfacian imperialists. | ||
| + | -Kovio | ||
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| + | I dont even see the problem. Tora, instead of joining badfacia, which is on the other side of the map, we decided to join the much closer Khanate who also have a asian theme going. As for land running claims look at the huge islands the soviets control, uniting Tora with Katarbad will only be the orginial territory Tora was before Mongols came. - Minoriko | ||
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| + | >United Council state annexed the Nothern territories and Glo | ||
| + | There was. | ||
| + | >There was no intervention when Battkhortostan annexed the Sacred Grove | ||
| + | Batt.x wasn't a nation, nobody cared about a shit tree. | ||
| + | >There was no mod intervention when I claimed the Antillies | ||
| + | Nobody cared. Although v1ad and I were pretty much about to tell you to fuck off from there but didn't go forward with it. | ||
| + | >There was no mod intervention when Coenstad annexed Deseret | ||
| + | Nobody cared | ||
| + | >There was no mod intervention when Kurwa annexed Lakota land | ||
| + | We were the mods back then, so obviously nobody opposed retard. | ||
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| + | The fact that we didn't get somewhere is because you will always have to come up shitting Berlin Walls of autist text that is pretty much demotivational for us. Whenever you stick your nose where you are not wanted around we back off because you are so incredibly annyoing that we have not the will power to stand you way of being you fucking fatso Texan spic. | ||
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| + | But congratulations. If I actually have to close this poll in order to stop you from shitting this autist ocean, I will you fucking son of a bitch. I should have banned you when you griefed my house. --- //[[caBst@irc.dev-urandom.eu|caBastard]] 2012/07/05 18:35// | ||
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| + | So why can't you fuck off then, I don't see how I'm the fucking problem when I write out a formal opinion on this matter and noting various flaws in your assertions, which you refuse a defense to simply stating you are ignoring everything it states after reading some historical precedents that are in conflict with this vote, then degrade into shouting insults and performing ad hominem attacks on me after I push you to provide a real response;\\ | ||
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| + | The Facts fail to show why the Katten situration is exceptional enough to require intervention on the basis of Territorial imbalance when their territory doesn't even equal half that of the Soviets, GAM, or Badfacia; with the historical precedents going against intervention based on their annexation of Tora leaving this vote passing producing no results other than to legitimise the constant meddling you attempt to do under your title of mod, which is why you have revolked it under the pretext of 'unbearable autism' to save face when you were the sole Aye on the poll; as well as to conveintetly place the blame on me for the vote failing in response to me calling you out on your failure to produce a actual arguement as to why this vote has any real purpose.\\ | ||
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| + | And to add, you did ban me when I greifed your house, which I did 3 times. --- //[[texas@elektromail.yu|Jyīoɯ̅ecκacs]] 2012/07/05 19:02// | ||
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| + | >nobody opposed kurwa annexing lakota land | ||
| + | IT WAS ALWAYS KURWAN LAND THAT LAKOTA WERE ALLOWED TO LIVE ON FEEL WITH IT BRESHIK FAGGOTS KRIEG ISLAND STRONG -vlad | ||
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| + | >GAM is 300 times larger than all Katteni territories combined | ||
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| + | >Katten accused of land running | ||
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| + | yeah, nah... -- mazznoff | ||