Revised Discussion

I'm going to abandon this page and work out a page for user plugin petitions since that seems to be the way to go. — Juinn TODAY

I like the idea of using only the informational aspects, in fact, I proposed this months/years ago. Just updating so we can get some staff response. — Sikandar 2013/02/18 18:55

Main Topic (OLD DISCUSSION)

Put on topic statements up here. Large or distinct conversations should get their own subheading.

Pros:

User maintained, mod moderated factions that are largely self-contained.
Users can 'lock' their lands from newfriend griefers, and can choose who they want to allow to build on their land, and on which part of it.
Live data for conflicts, factions (less butthurt, empowers mods to make decissions instead of “I said, they said”)
Clan-tags could be displayed in chat
Has IRC interfacers (I believe)
Economic elements with room for a proper economy
Wars are defined AND enforced without the need for mod intervention
Groups can opt out of the system for peaceful (no-pvp) gameplay
Spawns, notorious for being griefed, could be locked with mod regulated build permission.
Monsters could be disabled or set to neutral in spawn areas
Faction leaders and their groupies could get capes.
Historic sites and abandoned lands can be reserved by mods to prevent often unnoticed griefing (Vinnland)
Allows for a proper, self-powered factional function on a server created for, and advertised as, such.

Cons:

A more entertaining server may attract more players, dedicated players might compete for bandwidth
Players and mods will have to learn how to use a new system
Technical issues may have to be sorted out

Economy?

“[…] On a on-topic note, you guys should enforce currency and commerce somehow. Economy goes pretty well with Politics, anyways. — Ranshiin Dragonbro 2013/01/07 14:09”

I also think the plugin makes allowances for an economy, it's called vault I think? And then it's a question of using iConomy, BOSEconomy, EssentialsEco, or etc options. I don't know much about these however. — Juinn

Greenkitten's Inputs and Responses

No, fuck the plugin, fuck the nations, just disable PVP because no one is allowed to kill anyone. Just look at Kovio, permabanned yet again for killing citizens of a nation his nation is at war against. To be honest if the mods are just going to ban anyone who hits someone with a sword then what is the point of even having it at all? Just nuke it once and for all. It'll save a lot of headaches. — greenkitten 2013/01/06 19:21

Maybe when youd stop killing people randomly. you had you chance to act like a honorable nation you claimed to be and look what it led to you just started killing people randomly when you ran out of people who would fight you mongoloids. -venomthrope-

That was kovio who randomly killed people and he is permabanned for it now, just because the acts of one member were less than perfect doesn't mean it should drag the rest of us down with him even if he was the “leader” We've raided according to the rules and set up out battles in advance like a proper nation and when we stepped out of line we have been banned like any other players. The problem is that the mods don't take our war declarations seriously, the whole point of the mongols was to create war on the server, and once the people who actually gave a shit about defending their nation left we had no one else to fight. The server is large and has heaps of space for everyone, so there is no fights over clay, and no nations want to fight and those that do will get banned for PVPing, there is no point in PVP or nations. This plugin is useless and it would make no difference if PVP were enabled or not. — green kitten 2013/01/07 13:21

Then why do you keep supporting and justifying kovio's rule violations? It's obvious enough that the rightful punishments against kovio were directed at him and not at the entire KK. It seems that you deliberately misunderstand this difference, just to accuse the mods of being biased. — Enton 2013/01/08 13:58

By “Randomly killing people” Venomthrope referred to not lawful battles/raids/wars. Just because you're supposed to wage war freely as it defines your nation, it doesn't mean that the global pvp rules don't apply to you aswell. On a on-topic note, you guys should enforce currency and commerce somehow. Economy goes pretty well with Politics, anyways. — Ranshiin Dragonbro 2013/01/07 14:09

Well thats kovio randomly killing people, I don't believe the rest of us have done that. I centainly don't kill others randomly and the rest of the nation hasn't really come online for a while due to having no one to fight. Also economy is pretty useless to us as we already have fuckloads of resources and don't really need anything. Venomthorpe is just promoting the mods' lies and slander towards the khanate, as without us they wouldn't have to do their jobs. — green kitten 2013/01/07 23:38

[Juinn] For Maznoff

War status and factions are clearly defined (no wiki edits necessary, info available in game)
Players can 'lock' chunks of land for their personal, or their faction's use (self protection from griefs), with locks that fade with time so you don't get huge chunks of abandoned territory.
War would have a system for taking these chunks instead of make believe “maybe I can now kill you without bans” war times. (National war becomes a better game, economy for mercenaries and war goods)
The system is not merely verbal, it's factual and coded, mostly takes care of itself. (needs less mod attention)
Nations and groups can opt out of wars so that they cannot engage or be engaged in PVP, ONLY with mod permission (no ducking out of wars)
Uses an economy for purchasing chunks (economic intrigue, orders and settlements can gain some power)
A plethora of improvements for factional, group play. (Fun times)
It generally gives less reasons for mongol butthurts (save for not killing the server?)

Tl;DR

Click to display ⇲

Click to hide ⇱

The nice thing about these plugins is that wars would be less murky and dubious. Either you and your faction are at war with somebody or you aren't. We could more easily avoid situations where individuals and nations might be ground by the gears of bureaucracy by agents who may not be able to know what happened by who or when. As is, the system of war is entirely verbal with no mechanics to actively, and in-game, signify and enforce who's doing what with whom. While raiding as we know it would be minimized, proper raiding, war, alliance, even statehood would be empowered. It could also mean actively grabbing up clay. IE, “That's a nice cathedral you've got there Shako, it'd be a shame if I just came along and legally stole it after gilling you 50 times. OH WAIT THAT'S WHAT JUST HAPPENED HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEH” It wouldn't be “Taco, Taco I miraculously defeated the mightiest Breshiks at war fighting [{teasing}this is obviously your dreams here btw{/teasing}]. Plz gib their clay to me.” and then days of bickering until ultimately nothing happens and all the remains is butthurt.

It also means that trumped up proxy avoidance issues, like nah bro that country doesn't even exist anymore how can you war against it?, or pretending that a multinational corporation has war/raiding rights and it's not YOUR nation fighting or anything baka, are moot. You're part of one faction, ending and recreating that faction would take precious time, you're in it for keeps, you're invested, wars, losses, gains, are all more real and fair.

It also minimizes griefing from random newfriends, since active players can lock their land. And it means little to no unlawful PvP as factions that don't want to fight can be set to peaceful and everyone else should know what they're signing up for. And as numbers build strength, it encourages unity and factional growth meaning an enchanced player culture to create, and to be warred against.

These plugins would ACTUALLY GIVE YOU (Yes YOU dirty mongol empire) the ability to war on the server with less bans. And I stress that point as in factional play the Mongol Empire would have an important role as a power blok (the k is for Khannate). Killing your enemies would be legal, indeed you be rewarded by depriving them of value and potentially clay in a justified context. At the same time there would also be sanctuaries, like spawn and factional territories (assuming you built right) so people who get gilled have less justification for butthurt. They can see who they're at war with, and who of that group is online. It even give's definition to “war-zones” where anyone can PVP anyone, and if placed well could add an interesting dynamic to travel and warfare. As stated before it gives people reason to fight rather than hide, to sack clay and disempower rivals. If the Mongols want to fight, have people fight them, and not get banned, this is the way you can do just that.

Obviously there is room for problems, but I think these plugins would go a long way in enforcing a legitimate system of enjoyable, factional play. What's also nice is that these plugins are maintained by a larger more active group whose rules and insights can be mimicked to minimize issues. [/Juinn]

Do you seriously expect me or anyone to read your wall of text? Learn to express your pros and cons shortly. — mazznoff 2013/01/08 11:31

The Opposite

How about keeping plugins minimal or even abolishing the current nation system? — Enton 2013/01/08 13:58

Abolish nations, disable pvp, give everyone creative mode. Then you can cut down to maybe 2 or 3 mods to fix griefing. — green kitten 2013/01/08 14:41

DustRemover says

Its gay, no.

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